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 Post subject: Rites of Passage
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:07 am 
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As part of the continuing work on the new SLOPedia, Mulefoot and I found ourselves in a discussion regarding traditional rites of passage amongst certain species and cultures in the SLOPverse.
The first we discussed was that of the Bo (i.e. sentient Bovids), most specifically that of the Toro tribe (which includes most sentient "beef" cattle breeds).

We had felt that certain traditions in our world, such as the Corrida, would also exist in the SLOPverse, albeit with a different twist. In the SLOPverse, the Corrida is a rite of passage for young Toro, where they will face off in the ring against non-sentient bulls using only those weapons, which the creator gave them: namely their hooves and horns.

Further discussion came up with the idea that there are three traditional Rites of Passage for young Toro, which are as follows:

(1) Getting your hot-brand
(2) Getting your first nose-ring
(3) Surviving your first Corrida

We're currently spit-balling Rites of Passage for other species as well, such as a first successful hunt with only your teeth and claws for Felids...

So, I thought I'd open up the floor to discussion and see what other folks might think.

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 Post subject: Re: Rites of Passage
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:13 pm 
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The Church frowns upon these rites as it encourages racial pride rather than cooperative existence.

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 Post subject: Re: Rites of Passage
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:49 pm 
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(Redacted)

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Last edited by Wotan on Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Rites of Passage
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:44 pm 
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Wotan wrote:
Further discussion came up with the idea that there are three traditional Rites of Passage for young Toro, which are as follows:

(1) Getting your hot-brand
(2) Getting your first nose-ring
(3) Surviving your first Corrida

I'd like to hear more about your thought process about these.
To me, getting a brand is a mark of ownership and servatude. That someone else is going to make your life choices for you.
And a nose ring is that you are easily led, both phisicaly and mentialy.
Finally, doing battle with a non-sentient bovine. Now if you are talking about 'Bulldoging' where the animal is just flipped on it's side. That might be do-able. But a battle to the death.. Well that's like asking a human to fight a chimp or gorilla.

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 Post subject: Re: Rites of Passage
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:11 am 
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(Redacted)

Ramseys wrote:
To me, getting a brand is a mark of ownership and servatude. That someone else is going to make your life choices for you.


(Redacted)... For example... Do tattoos mean you're a slave and that someone else makes your life choices for you? Likewise with ritualistic scarification (and in many cases branding as well), it can also serve as a statement of family ties, self-expression, or even be a mark of pride. For example: certain horse brands, such as the stylised "H" worn by purebred Hanovers could be a mark of pride amongst the Hanover Clan in the SLOPverse... It's your Clan and Herd identity. In such a case, to get your brand is to gain a sense of belonging within your community.

Likewise, Kwinum, who join the FUS Army might look forward to receiving their "FUS" flank-brand at the end of Basic Training with a sense of pride, and after their service, it would mark them as veterans just as surely as the military tattoos that many members of the forces get. Likewise when you earn your badges such as a Special Forces, Sapper, Ranger, or President's Hundred.

Likewise, with other species, devices such as ear-notching can serve the same function as family and clan identifiers.

Quote:
And a nose ring is that you are easily led, both phisicaly and mentialy.


(Redacted) ...Nose rings in Toro bulls could also be a badge of honour showing that you're worthy to compete for a herd. It could also be a means of body decoration and jewellery, just like humans, who wear ear and nose rings, or even a bone in their nose.

Quote:
Finally, doing battle with a non-sentient bovine. Now if you are talking about 'Bulldoging' where the animal is just flipped on it's side. That might be do-able. But a battle to the death.. Well that's like asking a human to fight a chimp or gorilla.


(Redacted)

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"Popular lies have ever been the most potent enemies of personal liberty. There is only one way to deal with them. Cut them out, to the very core, just as cancers are..." - Ragnar Redbeard, "Might is Right" (1890).


Last edited by Wotan on Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Rites of Passage
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:34 am 
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Well the biggest problem is that we as humans don't have a non-sentient counter part standing around.
So we see cattle with brands showing ownership and nose rings to lead them around with.
The closest analogy I can come up with:
You don't see humans walking around with their SSN or some other number, tattooed to their inside left fore arm.
Or in the 1800's the biggest fashion trend was to wear steel neck bands.

Now I can see if they were xenophobes and the brand was so they knew that they were mating with a 'pure' member of their own kind.
Or some how flip the nose ring wearing around and only a few well off bulls had massive gold rings to show leadership...

But I'm really struggling with the idea that some Toro is going to feel pride with a "tattoo" when he can look over the fence and see an animal with a similar brand.

And I didn't mean to make this personal, it's just that everything you said more or less went counter to what I felt about sentient bovine.

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 Post subject: Re: Rites of Passage
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:41 am 
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Ramseys wrote:
Well the biggest problem is that we as humans don't have a non-sentient counter part standing around.


Well, we do. Or at least portion of the ignorant in our society think we do. But I'm not going to go there.

Uncle.

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 Post subject: Re: Rites of Passage
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:45 am 
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Wotan wrote:
So, I thought I'd open up the floor to discussion and see what other folks might think.


With the Cuni, especially for the females, it's the verification, if you will, of your place in the over all scheme of things.
As demonstrated with Runs With Stick, her discussion with her mother and grandmother as to "We are Cuni."

For the males, it is similar and includes the permission to wear the sacred Indamo dye. And what it means to be Cuni.

Uncle.

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 Post subject: Re: Rites of Passage
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:38 am 
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(Redacted)

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"Popular lies have ever been the most potent enemies of personal liberty. There is only one way to deal with them. Cut them out, to the very core, just as cancers are..." - Ragnar Redbeard, "Might is Right" (1890).


Last edited by Wotan on Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Rites of Passage
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:10 pm 
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Ramseys wrote:
Well the biggest problem is that we as humans don't have a non-sentient counter part standing around.
So we see cattle with brands showing ownership and nose rings to lead them around with.
The closest analogy I can come up with:
You don't see humans walking around with their SSN or some other number, tattooed to their inside left fore arm.
Or in the 1800's the biggest fashion trend was to wear steel neck bands.

Now I can see if they were xenophobes and the brand was so they knew that they were mating with a 'pure' member of their own kind.
Or some how flip the nose ring wearing around and only a few well off bulls had massive gold rings to show leadership...

But I'm really struggling with the idea that some Toro is going to feel pride with a "tattoo" when he can look over the fence and see an animal with a similar brand.

And I didn't mean to make this personal, it's just that everything you said more or less went counter to what I felt about sentient bovine.


Seems to me it would depend completely on who did it.

If any of those things were done to someone else, yeah, it would be totally over their objections and dignity, but if they did it to themselves, then that's a personal statement.
There are plenty of examples in this 'verse of people who tatoo, brand, scar, implant, pierce, castrate, and even hang themselves from trees by their piercings. Personally, never been into body adornment; in my line of work it could even kill me. But plenty of people do, and I'm thinking the slopverse is considerably more diverse a crowd than humans. When I had cattle,
( http://www.furaffinity.net/user/neandernitz/ ), my bull would show off to other bulls by turning broadside and arching his neck to emphasize his neck hump. I can so see some macho Toro having "enhancements" to make the same kind of visual statement. I wouldn't/didn't do such to him, I don't crop Danes' ears, I regret that the guy who raised my Draft stallion docked part of his tail off. But I can see some sentient Draft having his off to show off his muscling. Our 'verse is full of vain species. Why wouldn't slopverse's inhabitants be?

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 Post subject: Re: Rites of Passage
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:30 pm 
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(redacted)

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"Popular lies have ever been the most potent enemies of personal liberty. There is only one way to deal with them. Cut them out, to the very core, just as cancers are..." - Ragnar Redbeard, "Might is Right" (1890).


Last edited by Wotan on Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Rites of Passage
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:13 pm 
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neandernitz wrote:
There are plenty of examples in this 'verse of people who tatoo, brand, scar, implant, pierce, castrate, and even hang themselves from trees by their piercings.


There are numerous examples all over the net of people showing a total lack of common sense when it comes to body modifications.
Most of which fall into the category of "Don't hire me".

But I suspect that what the real topic here is not one of poor judgement, but more of a specific to a special sort of "We all do this."
And a sub set of that being "Under these circumstances, we all do this too."

In the human world, for example, circumcision. Although I would think that's not a "likely" thing in the slop universe.

Predominately, it would be my opinion, "rites of passage" would be more along the lines of a cultural awareness of your species and it's origins.

Although, I can see, "ear notches" being done by some as a "Look how bad ass I am, you should'a seen the other guy" Even if "the other guy" was a cosmetic surgeon.

Uncle.

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 Post subject: Re: Rites of Passage
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:24 pm 
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Wotan wrote:
Anyway, I *WAS* hoping we'd have a discussion with regards to possible rites of passage in other species...


A suggestion:

A discussion is not posting some comments, then taking it personally when someone disagrees with you and then going after them point by point to prove that they're wrong.

Uncle.

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 Post subject: Re: Rites of Passage
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:44 pm 
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Wotan wrote:
We're currently spit-balling Rites of Passage for other species as well


Ah yes, the transition from adolescence to adulthood.
And the subsequent social acceptance of your new status.

The hormonal changes in your body. Maturity, a rounding of hips, breast development and your first period. A deepening of your voice and muscle tone for the males. Development of pubic hair...Although I would suspect in the Slop universe, a change in the coloration in your fur surrounding the genital area. (Shudders at the thought of Uthalla having a snatch, oh God, where's my eye bleach?)

But these are all natural things that come about as we age and develop. In acknowledgement of that, there are the social customs that have evolved as a recognition of your change into adulthood.

Simple things, like the boys finally being able to wear pants with long legs. Or "Hey, did you see, Bob got his first set of antlers."
Or social things like a coming out party for the young women, which in reality means, "They're old enough to marry, please do so we don't have to feed them anymore."
Some are set by the government, such as the legal age for drinking, voting, driving etc.

Other by customs of the species themselves.

Uncle.

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 Post subject: Re: Rites of Passage
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:59 pm 
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Uncle wrote:

A suggestion:

A discussion is not posting some comments, then taking it personally when someone disagrees with you and then going after them point by point to prove that they're wrong.

Uncle.


My apology. I withdraw my comments.

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"Popular lies have ever been the most potent enemies of personal liberty. There is only one way to deal with them. Cut them out, to the very core, just as cancers are..." - Ragnar Redbeard, "Might is Right" (1890).


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 Post subject: Re: Rites of Passage
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:34 am 
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Perhaps we need a more proper goad for the discussion. Ima' copy-pasting from Wikipedia's page on Rites of Passage to provide real world examples to get the creative juices properly flowing for this interactive dialog. *ahem*
Quote:
A rite of passage is a ritual event that marks a person's progress from one status to another. It is a universal phenomenon which can show anthropologists what social hierarchies, values and beliefs are important in specific cultures. Rites of passage are often ceremonies surrounding events such as other milestones within puberty, coming of age, marriage and death. Initiation ceremonies such as baptism, confirmation and Bar or Bat Mitzvah are considered important rites of passage for people of their respective religions. Rites of passage have three phases.

In the first phase, people withdraw from their current status and prepare to move from one place or status to another. "The first phase (of separation) comprises symbolic behaviour signifying the detachment of the individual or group ... from an earlier fixed point in the social structure."[4] There is often a detachment or "cutting away" from the former self in this phase, which is signified in symbolic actions and rituals. For example, the cutting of the hair for a person who has just joined the army. He or she is "cutting away" the former self: the civilian.

"In the third phase (reaggregation or reincorporation) the passage is consummated [by] the ritual subject."[6] Having completed the rite and assumed their "new" identity, one re-enters society with one's new status. Re-incorporation is characterized by elaborate rituals and ceremonies, like debutant balls and college graduation, and by outward symbols of new ties: thus "in rites of incorporation there is widespread use of the 'sacred bond', the 'sacred cord', the knot, and of analogous forms such as the belt, the ring, the bracelet and the crown."[7]

Initiation rites are seen as fundamental to human growth and development as well as socialization in many African communities. These rites function by ritually marking the transition of someone to full group membership. [8] It also links individuals to the community and the community to the broader and more potent spiritual world. Initiation rites are a natural and necessary part of a community, just as arms and legs are natural and necessary extension of the human body. These rites are linked to individual and community development. Dr. Manu Ampim identifies five stages; rite to birth, rite to adulthood, rite to marriage, rite to eldership and rite to ancestorship. [9] In Zulu culture entering womanhood is celebrated by the Umhlanga (ceremony).

Coming of age

Bar Mitzvah
Breeching
Débutante ball
Dokimasia
First driver's license or other official identity card
First haircut
Quinceañera in parts of Latin America and elsewhere in communities of immigrants from Latin America.
Russ in Norway
Scarification and various other physical endurances
Sweet Sixteen in the United States and Canada
Sevapuneru or Turmeric ceremony in South India to mark menarche
Etoro tribe and Baruya in Papua New Guinea where young boys must begin ingesting their elders semen, and then stop doing it at a certain age.


In various tribal societies, entry into an age grade—generally gender-separated—(unlike an age set) is marked by an initiation rite, which may be the crowning of a long and complex preparation, sometimes in retreat.
[edit] Religion
Jesus underwent Jewish circumcision, here depicted in a Catholic cathedral; a liturgical feast commemorates this on New Year's Day

Baptism
First Eucharist and First Confession (especially First Communion in Catholicism)
Confirmation (most Western Christian denominations, such as Catholic, and mainline Protestant churches)
Confirmation in Reform Judaism
Bar Mitzvah and Bat Mitzvah in Judaism
Rumspringa
Circumcision, mainly in Judaism (Bris)
Diving for the Cross, in some Orthodox Christian churches
Hajj
Samscara a series of sacraments in Hinduism
Shinbyu in Theravada Buddhism
Vision quest in some Native American cultures
"Quinceañera" many whose celebrations include a Catholic mass at church
Coming of Age in Unitarian Universalism

[edit] Others

Secular coming of age ceremonies for non-religious youngsters who want a rite of passage comparable to the religious rituals like confirmation
Walkabout
Batizados in Capoeira
Black Belt Grading in Martial Arts
Castration in some sects and special castes
Virginity
First Alcoholic Beverage
Grandmotherhood

[edit] Armed forces

Accolade
Baptism by fire
Battlefield commission, equivalent to ennoblement for valor or knighting on the field in the ancien régime
Berserker, berserkergang – an initiatory Nordic warrior-rite; the young Scandinavian warrior of old or Viking had to symbolically transform into a bear or wolf before he could become an elite warrior (cf. Cuchulain's transformation)
Blood wings
Counting coup
Krypteia – a "robber-baron" or "bandit-warrior" rite of the military youths of ancient Sparta
Pas d'armes
Trial by battle, or Judicium Dei (Judgment of God)
U.S. Marines: Crucible
U.S. Navy: Battle Stations
Naval (military and civilian) crossing the equator
In the U.S. Navy and Royal Navy, wetting-down is a ceremony in which a Naval officer is ceremonially thrown into the ocean upon receiving a promotion.
U.S. Army: Victory Forge
In many military organizations, as in civilian groups, new conscripts are sometimes subjected by "veterans" to practical jokes, ranging from taking advantage of their naïveté to public humiliation and physical attacks; see Hazing.
Soldiers and sailors may also be hazed again on obtaining a promotion.
In Greece conscription is mandatory and has been historically linked with maturing of a man. The army was historically perceived as the "natural" way to go and as a final "school" of socialization and maturing for young men before their come out to the real world; also it would be the first time a young man would find himself on his own and away from home. Consequently, draft dodgers, deserters, or men unable to serve encountered prejudice, were often frowned upon and deemed useless by conservative societies

[edit] Academic groups

Some academic circles such as dorms, fraternities, teams and other clubs practice

Hazing
Ragging
Fagging
Szecskáztatás, a mild form of hazing (usually without physical and sexual abuse) practiced in some Hungarian secondary schools. First-year junior students (szecskák [singular form: szecska]) are publicly humiliated through embarrassing clothing and senior students branding their faces (with marker pens); it is sometimes also a contest, with the winners usually earning the right to organize the next event.

Entrance into Medicine and Pharmacy (University):

White Coat Ceremony
In Spanish universities of the Modern Age, like Universidad Complutense in Alcalá de Henares, upon completion of his studies, the student was submitted to a public questioning by the faculty, who could ask sympathetic questions that let him excel or tricky points. If the student passed he invited professors and friends to a party. If not, he was publicly processioned with donkey ears.

Entrance to the profession of Engineer:

The Ritual of the Calling of an Engineer, also known as the Iron Ring Ceremony

Entrance into Architecture (University):

Walk on Water: Second-year students must pass the competition to continue in the school of architecture at Florida International University in the United States

Graduations, celebrations, ostracizations, subjectifications, and justifications are can all be rites in and of themselves. What we are tasked with is what these things would look like for Slop's beastmen world and what unique things to that world would have their own bizarre and alien rituals.

Example: We saw in one of the early comics a dashboard distraction with a rubbed off face. What if the vilken have/had a practice where a superior would stroke a paw from a subordinates head from nose to crown. Mayhap this tradition was started by the priests of an organized religion for supplication and usurped by nobility as a way to interact, show approval, or make agreements with the lower classes with a minimum of dirty contact. A vilka teenager coupling could have a simple ceremony where each places the others hand on their head as publicly submitting to each other and announcing to all that the two have or will have intercourse. Thus the rubbing has different connotations that could be religious, social, or sexual based upon the context of the situation.

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